I’m excited that Beth Summers is on the podcast this week! She’s a mindful eating and intuitive life coach and today we’re mostly going to be talking about websites and content. We covered a lot in today’s coaching call when it comes to dealing with two different audiences on your website and with your offers. 

 

Beth: Okay, so my first question is I basically have two websites. I have my own kind of personal coaching site, right? And then I have gotten together with some friends of mine and we’ve created a membership site and they work well together, right?  So I help people one on one with their food relationships and the membership. That’s kind of what I facilitate as well. And then, you know, my friends bring in the joyful movement and emotional intelligence. So it’s a very holistic, like it fits right. It’s not like one is coaching and one I’d like some tap dance video. So they work together. But I guess my question is, okay, how, how do I market both, especially if I don’t want to have like for example, an Instagram account for both? And how do I streamline my membership seamlessly into my, my website? Like is there a website strategy for both?

Jess: Okay. So unfortunately my first piece of advice would be to have separate Instagrams, but we can work around that. I just am of mostly of the belief that if something has a separate website, it probably needs a separate Instagram as well. And there are exceptions to that. Like I know some people who have a separate website like for their podcast, but they just market their podcasts on their Instagram. So there are exceptions. And I have two businesses and honestly the one doesn’t get a lot of marketing done for, it doesn’t have its own Instagram. Like I usually just talk about my website stuff on Jess Creatives’  Instagram. I don’t talk about like my video and podcast editing that often on honestly probably like three times a year. But I’m not trying to actively like grow that to as big of a business as Jess Creatives. So that’s also why. But marketing these two separate things, you can definitely link to it on your website.

Jess: I have your website pulled up right now and you have a products and services tab. So you could totally either have like a dropdown under products and services and just say like membership. Or you could have a fourth graphic on the services page for the membership. I will say, just a tiny little detail – super important though, anytime you link to your membership site from your website make sure that it’s opening in a new tab because we didn’t want people to leave your website. It also depends on how much do you want to drive traffic to the membership. Like if it’s a really big focus, you could honestly even have membership as its own tab in your navigation. So it could just say about products and services, membership, blog contact, and then that membership link would just take you to the membership in a new tab.

Jess: The only downside to that is that then people are kind of like, wait, what is this? Is this just for that? You know, they kind of have to learn about it. So you could also have a membership page on your site that kind of goes in depth. Like we don’t want just it to be a whole page just for the membership that is only like a picture of you and a paragraph and a button. Like we need something more than that for an entire page. But totally fine to have membership either as a dropdown on your services page or even have its own page if you have enough information. That’s really going to inform those visitors as to like, Oh, this is the next best step. You could also think about how can you, and maybe you already do, but like how can you funnel your clients into the membership.

Like it could be just maybe on your last call with them or your last email. Like, Hey, you know, I also have this membership that talks about X, Y, and Z. You might want to check it out. Let me know if you have questions. It could be something like that or it could be maybe you’re sending them kind of automated emails that you’re educating them during the process. This is something I’m now doing with my clients. So when you work with me, you sign up, you get a contract, invoice, then you start getting emails that are like, Hey, you need a privacy policy on your website. Here’s why, etc. Have client testimonials on your site, here’s a video to help you like educating them.

But then I start to talk about, creating content so your website’s not static and you’re actually driving people to your website. And then I start linking to my course. So it’s still educational. And also these emails are very, very short. They’re not typical like marketing emails. So think about how you could start incorporating that into your business. Maybe even like if you have a welcome packet of some sort that you send to clients, maybe it’s mentioned in there, even just to make them aware of it.

And then when it comes to marketing your services on social media I think if you have a new blog posts on the membership site, like just share it as if you would your blog posts on your own site. Or maybe you can do something a little more laid out, like maybe on your calendar it’s like, okay, every other Friday or something I’m going to mention the membership somehow. And let it be more planned out without having too much structure. So it could be like, we had a really great win inside the membership this week. So that’s what I’ll share on Friday. Or this is a new blog post or maybe it’s just like a blatant like, have you heard about my membership? You know, if you don’t have a new blog or a big win to share, you can be like, have you heard of my membership? Maybe you haven’t. Like you can come share it. So since your one-on-one services and your membership go hand in hand, that makes it a lot easier for you to share it naturally on your Instagram. So does that help with the website and Instagram?

Beth: I think it does. And this is great because Jess will tell you, I ask her questions all the time. So it’s cool to have this like real time back and forth so I can ask you follow-up questions. So it sounds like I’m doing some things right. So that’s good to have that confirmation. I do have like within my offerings on my products and services page, if you click on like the private and group coaching for example, it does say as part of this, the group experience is in this membership and then there is a link, but I like the idea of maybe I can have an informational page on my site and then linking back over. So those are some really good ideas. But I did have a follow up question. Would it be helpful then to include in, you know, the link bio that everyone does on Instagram? I’ve got it on my website, but sending them to with the list of buttons. So I could have a button there that says like, you know, here’s our membership or maybe it’s a free course or a free session that month. So I could guide people through it that way as well. Right?

Jess: Yes, absolutely. And I love that you have your own, it’s on your website, super smart. But yeah, you could totally just linked to your membership there. That’s an easy way to get more people in. Now, unrelated to like the membership specifically, how many buttons do you have on that Instagram landing page?

Beth: I could look it up. I would say there might be five. I know that you have said previously as far as like call to actions on your home page or on your products and services page, you really should keep it to a minimum, right? Is that the same for a Linktree type system?

Jess: No, no, no. I mean we don’t want to have too many. I would kind of say like, five or six feels like enough is what I would say, unless it’s short term. Maybe you’re launching something and you add an extra button, and you have seven buttons for a month. Like it’s not the end of the world. I’ve seen some linktrees that have like eight or 10 buttons and I’m like, okay, they just might as well like go to your actual webs. Like, I mean they hopefully are on your actual website, not just link tree, but like even, so I’m like, why, what’s the point of this? Like you’re already on your website. Just let them navigate. It’s really, those quick buttons are to like point people to a specific thing. Whether it’s, you know, your podcast or your membership or whatever it is.

Beth: So I kind of, it’s similar ish in that you could say that I have to two niches of who my target audience is, is not just the individual disordered diameter per se. I also work collaboratives collaboratively with my colleagues, right. So maybe there’s an intuitive eating informed dietician or there’s a health at every size therapist. I have the book that I use with my one on one clients. I’ve used it to facilitate like group events and workshops and it’s very helpful as a resource for my colleagues. So some might, two niches you could say is like the individual eater, right. And then the professionals that I would like to help them with this, these resources. Right, right. My question I guess is it’s similar to the, how do I, how do I market to both my personal coaching versus my membership and how can I talk to both audiences without having to have another account or another website? Can you do it seamlessly? I’d like to think that I have, but I’m just wondering if there’s anything that I might be missing or, or some advice that you might have in balancing like different niches within one setting.

Jess: Yeah, so this is, this can be really tricky because you have two completely different messages when you’re talking to different niches now, luckily yours overlaps. Like I know some people, I’ve had a client who, she was a dietician working with individuals, but then she did graphic design as well, like on the side. And that does not overlap like at all. And so that can be really difficult to have on one website. Yours since it’s still something that they can use with their individual clients as well. It’s a little bit easier. My first question is like, are you wanting this to be kind of like a 50, 50 split or is it like I just want most of my work to be with the clients, individuals and then just kind of a 10% like as people find me, you know, they can?

Beth: That’s a good question. I’m going to give you a cop out answer and say that it totally, I feel like currently right now as I’m like building up my one on one business, that would probably be my focus. So no, not a 50 50 but maybe, you know, five or 10 years down the road and I really want to focus on kind of more collaborative efforts and I could shift that. So I guess it doesn’t have to be like one in the same. I could, I could change it or easily adapt if I need to.

Jess: Yeah. So let’s start with like the 50/50 scenario, I would say that one of the, one of the first things I would do is have like a really clear headline on your front page, on your home page. And this could be, you know, like I help disordered eaters or something like that. Cause you just said that you expand upon that, maybe it’s worded differently, whatever. And then underneath that you have two buttons and one says like, I’m not a good copywriter on the spot. But like one is, you know, like I need help. Other one is like, I want to help my clients basically two buttons. One is for the individual to click, one is for the dietician or coach to click.

But so that could be the one message, you know that kind of encapsulates what you do. But I would say like, the most success you’re going to find is when one of those niches is more dominant. I always think back to when I first started my business and I started blogging and the beginning of my blog posts would be like, today I’m going to talk to you about logos. So if you need a logo for your business, your church, your school, your organization—I literally had blog posts that listed out like your church, your school, your organization or nonprofit.

Here’s what you need to know. And like, if you’re talking to everyone, you’re talking to no one. Which, you’re not talking to everyone. That’s not the case, but it gets difficult when you’re trying to talk to two different people. So the other thing you could do if you’re like, I really want to lean heavily into the clients and just kind of have this book and helping my fellow colleagues kind of on the side. You could just have it kind of mentioned on your about page. Maybe you also have a little section that’s like, I also help here. And then I think really leaning into doing more podcast episodes and guest posts, I’m seeing not just showing up on their podcasts, the actual, but like where are the dietitians and coaches? Like what are they listening to? Like they could be listening to this podcast right now, so, so like they could go look at your website and find your book.

So it’s not necessarily that they have to be on your website, but they just hear your message, and then go find your book or whatever. So that’s an easy way is because then you’re not having to divide attention on your own website out there. And you could even do this with like YouTube or podcasting. You could have a YouTube channel that is targeted towards dietitians and coaches.

And you don’t have to link to it on your website. So that’s always an option. I actually kind of recommended this to one of my clients earlier this year, Kim who’s been on the podcast as well. She is a diabetes educator, a dietitian, but she also helps dietitians specifically kind of new dietitians and dietetic students. And she’s like, how do I like niche down? Like she’s a great example of someone who has two different nations. And her YouTube channel, it was really geared towards dietetic students and then she’s kind of leaning it more towards diabetes education now cause she wants, part of that is also because she wants to lean more into the diabetes education.

And again, like I said with, you know, marketing the, the membership and the one-on-one services. Maybe you have once or twice a month you do, you say something about your book on Instagram or your email list or whatever just to, to get that attention on it. Cause especially since you know the individual clients would benefit from it as well. That would be a case where the actual messaging in the caption or on your Instagram story, whatever would be different. Whereas like one would be like this can help you and your disordered eating and the other one would be like, this can be really beneficial for, you know, facilitating group conversations or whatever. And also looking at the hashtags you’re using. Cause if you’re targeting individuals with your book on Instagram or your services, even not just your book, you’re gonna use more of the hashtags that they’re using in searching the, if you’re targeting the dietitians and coaches, you might use a few different hashtags to try and show up there in front of them, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. That’s awesome.

Beth: That’s really helpful. Thanks. As you were talking, and again thinking about like what I currently do have on my site and is it working or not working? I do have again, like if you were to look at my products and services, one thing that I offer is it says experiential eating. If you were to click on that, it does kind of loosely say like, this is helpful for the individual and for group events.

Jess: I get designers who somehow come to my site, they listen to my podcast or read my blog, join my email list and I’m like, you’re not who I’m targeting. But they still find me. So I think it’s one of those things where yes, you want to be intentional cause obviously like you want more book sales and whatever. So you want that to be intentional so you can continue to grow that. But it’s not something you have to like overthink or over-complicate cause people are still going to find you. Something else I just thought of that you could do one last thing is maybe reach out to some of your colleagues and see if they are Amazon affiliates and if they would link to your book on their site. Cause you know, maybe they don’t do guest blogs. Maybe they don’t even have a blog that you can guest post on, you know. But a lot of people have resource pages nowadays and so you could be like, Hey, you know, I think your clients could benefit from reading this book and I would totally appreciate if you could consider linking to my book on your website.

And maybe it can be like, if there’s something I can do for you, if, if you have a resource you want me to list or a blog post, do you want me to share?

Beth: Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a great idea. I never thought of that. And I think there’s something that you see too, especially on on Instagram or maybe like at the bottom of someone’s website that’ll say like DM me for collaboration. Very helpful. Thank you.

Okay. I guess my last question would be, and I’m glad that you’re talking about YouTube, which I never thought of diversifying certain platforms and like what if I just use my YouTube and this one way as opposed as to being a catchall. So I love that idea. And it dovetails nicely into this, this question I’ve got. So I did loosely pull my audience on Instagram and asked, you know, if they preferred YouTube or podcasts. And overwhelmingly most people prefer podcasts, right? I get it.

But I would really like to build up my YouTube channel at some point in time because I miss the face to face interaction. And especially with what I do where we talk about the importance of diversifying your feeds. So because body diversity is an important concept to grasp if you’re struggling with body image issues, right? So that face to face, I’ve seen two different people talking about food and body issues who look completely different, whether it’s different, you know different ethnicities or different shapes and sizes. That’s important. And I think that’s actually missing in kind of this community that I’m a part of. And so my question is, even though most people are saying, I want podcast Beth, start a podcast. And I’m like, no, thank you. How can I meet my audience or my niches where they’re at but still delivering content in an untapped market is what I’m saying. I see YouTube being really resourceful and really helpful for what I do, even though that’s not necessarily what people say they’re looking for.

Jess: Right. Yes, that’s a great question. So I have a few thoughts. First of all, even if people say they prefer one thing doesn’t mean that they’re saying, I absolutely refuse to watch YouTube or vice versa. So still, even if they’re like, I want a podcast. I mean it’s just like if anyone, myself included, but if anyone listening has ever, you know, asked people like, would you be interested in, you know, like a low priced product or, or like this service and you answer, you know, at, you ask people and then everyone’s like, Oh my gosh, yes. And then you want you and you get crickets. It’s cause people say they want something doesn’t mean they’re actually gonna follow through with it.

People say things all the time of like, Oh, I want this or I would buy that or I would listen to that. Does it mean they actually would? And it doesn’t mean that, like I said, that they won’t listen to YouTube. I don’t know a single person that’s like, I refuse to read blog posts and I only watch YouTube videos. Like me personally, most of my content consumption is on YouTube. Because I’m a YouTuber and I just love YouTube. But that doesn’t mean I don’t read blog posts. Is it my preferred method? No, but if I’m really searching for something, I need to figure out something. I will read a blog post, and I do listen to podcasts almost every single day. But do our subscribe to every podcast out there? No. Do I listen in the ones that I am subscribed to?

Do I listen to every single episode? No. So all that to say, even if everyone said they want to podcast, don’t be afraid to just go to YouTube because the other thing is that you can reach a whole new audience. Exactly. If YouTube, right, yes, you’re not, it doesn’t mean you’re abandoning your current audience. But you can reach a whole new audience and you said like, you’re trying to grow that sir, you know, your services. It is far easier to be found in search on YouTube than it is podcasting. So much easier. Like it’s insane. And I have, yeah, I had a lot of people who were like, yeah, I don’t really watch videos. I started a YouTube channel anyway, and three years later I have 4,800 some odd people who are subscribed to my channel, so people are still watching. And yeah, I’m sure there’s people who follow me who have never watched a single video of mine and that’s fine.

Now as far as still meeting them where they’re at. One thing you could do, which does take a little bit of money and some time, but you can pull the audio from your YouTube videos and put it on as a podcast. You can totally do that. And that’s super easy to do. And what you could do is if you’re really wanting to grow your YouTube channel, you could predominantly market your YouTube videos. And then just say like, Oh, and it’s on a podcast too, you know, like you don’t have to, like I want to drive people to my YouTube videos and so I don’t, I don’t usually like a lot of times, not every, not every single week, but a lot of times my content overlaps between my podcast and my YouTube channel. I’m not pulling the audio. It’s totally separate because I want it to be good quality audio.

And not that it won’t be good quality if you pull it, but I just, I’m very nitpicky. That’s what I need to say. I’m just very nitpicky and I wanted it not to be the same. Like, not to be the exact same. Plus, my YouTube videos are like three to four minutes long. And so that’s not worthy of a podcast. So but I want to drive more traffic. If I’m talking about the same topic in one week, I want to drive more traffic to YouTube than my podcast. So when I email my list, I’m just pointing them to YouTube.

So obviously I love my podcast, like I’m getting more listeners, it’s growing, but I love YouTube. I see more results from YouTube. Personally, not everyone’s the same. I’m not saying you can’t get results from podcasts, but it’s just I want to drive people to YouTube, not my podcast, at least right now. So, it’s still visible on my website. If you click the link in my bio on Instagram, you can see like listen to my podcast. So it’s not like I’m hiding it. I mean I post about it on Instagram. So that’s just, you know, something to think about is you can still reach a whole new audience with YouTube. And if it’s an untapped market, then like dive into that, like that’s going to build so much authority more kinds are going to find you more colleagues are going to find you. So I would highly recommend it. Especially like you said, you want to show that body diversity, right? Yeah. 100%. It’s a lot easier to actually see body diversity when we’re on video.

Beth: That’s great. And I guess I kind of decided to that, you know, whether or not I ever choose to be my own podcast host, I can still show up on other’s podcasts. Right. And I can connect to people there, you know, so that I can still develop that, that know, trust, like factor or that authority piece like you were saying, but it doesn’t have to be me doing the podcasting. So maybe like that’s kind of the best of both worlds of I’ll grow this for me and my business and what I’m wanting to experience.

Jess: I will say when it comes to content, whether it’s blogging or video or podcasts, like if it’s not something you want to do, you’re not going to stick with it. So if you’re like, well, everyone said they wanted a podcast, so I guess I’ll do it. Like you’re not gonna have fun doing it, you’re not gonna want to keep doing it. And, and I think that is obvious when people are like, just not, they’re not into it. I think we can tell when you’re like, this podcast is super boring.

I say it’s your business. You can reach a whole other audience of people. And that’s one of my favorite things about YouTube is like, yeah, like my current audience might not love YouTube and go to it every single day. But there’s a whole ton of people out there who would watch this. So I think, I think it’s worth doing.

Beth: Yeah. And what you said, I didn’t even realize that as far as content goes or, or searchability that YouTube is much more SEO friendly than like podcasts. I hadn’t thought of that before you though.

Jess: Like if I’m searching, like, you know, what is disordered eating or whatever, like it’s going to YouTube or not YouTube, Google’s going to show me websites and it’s going to show me videos. If there are any high ranking videos on that topic, which may be, Beth will be that. But I’ve never, and I’m not saying they don’t do it, I’m just saying in my own experience of searching on Google for what you know, 20 years now, I have never actually seen a podcast come up in search results unless I’m specifically looking for a podcast or specific episode. And then it really just takes me to that person’s website, not like iTunes, right? Well, because there’s so many different ways to listen to a podcast. It’s like YouTube or Vimeo, Vimeo basically. So yeah. So the search rentability on YouTube is amazing.

I mean just in the last year or two, I mean I’ve only been doing YouTube for three years, but in the last year or two, I can’t tell you how many people have like DM’d me or emailed me and been like, I was searching for something in one of your videos came up like super cool. That it’s, cause it’s usually like a friend of mine, whether it’s a friend or like a, I keep saying real life friend, but local, non-business friend, whatever. And they’re like, one of your videos came up. I’m like, that’s how Google works. You optimize the titles and you optimize the content. Hopefully it’ll show up in search.

Beth: I hadn’t considered that before. It kinda, it does make me question about the, I dunno, I don’t know if you want to call like the profitability, if that’s even a word, but I know some people do like Patreon. I know that some podcasts or some blog posts are locked unless you’re a patron.

But I guess kind of what you were saying, if or when I ever do want to transition those YouTube videos into podcasts, it could be, you know, behind a wall like that. Like, I don’t want to go on create a complete podcast that’s available on iTunes and the whole thing, but, I could set a fight audio files and this kind of locked door system that people can pay to have access to you if they’re really wanting that kind of an experience.

Jess: Yes, absolutely. And that’s something, a lot of podcasters use Patreon. I think I did it for like nine or 10 months. But having exclusive content in Patreon like that’s super common. So whether that’s, you know, an, you know, non released episodes or extra episodes, bonus episodes, that’s totally something that you could do is cause you can actually upload in Patreon you can upload a video or an audio file directly in there so you don’t have to like, you know, upload it to YouTube or something and then embedded or linked to it.

Like you can actually natively upload that, those media files in Patreon. So people can just like listen our watch right there, they don’t have to like be taken to YouTube or anything. So that’s definitely something to kind of think about for the futures. Yeah. Keeping those audio files or, or I can use those audio files in my membership and say, well, yes, that is that, that is a genius that yeah, that’s great. Like, here’s, you know, extra training. Not extra training, but like it’s just, Hey, like here’s this easily accessible you know, training or whatever. That’s audio only. So if you, if you’re not into YouTube or blogging, like you can just listen to it here. So the only downside is like how would they listen to it? Cause part of the reason people love podcasts is cause they can listen to it on their phone while they’re driving or whatever.

So you would just want to make sure that that it’s easy to play or like pull up on their phone, even if it’s just through your website’s still like, that’s fine, but making sure that it’s easy, right. Or that it’s compatible. Like it’ll work. I think every single podcasts are probably in beds, the podcast player somewhere on their website, like in blog posts, kind of. And I’m, I mean those work on mobile, so you just want to make sure, cause since it’s a membership, that’s why I kind of brought up the accessibility because I don’t know exactly how that would work, but just making sure it’s, it’s easy to access.

Jess: So yeah, we talked about kind of separating, not separating but how to market, you know, the one-to-one versus the membership in two different niches.

And luckily all of your stuff kind of overlaps or intertwines and so that makes it a lot easier. I think it’s just really kind of figuring out like what do you predominantly want to market? And then just strategically like making sure you mention these other things, whether it’s like once a week, once a month, whatever, so that people still know it exists. And yeah, and then obviously start YouTube. So of course now I’m going to go subscribe. Let me know when your YouTube channels live so I can go subscribe. Before we wrap up, when she let us know where we can connect with you online.

Beth: Sure. You can find me on Instagram. I’m on there pretty regularly as Jessica can tell you. And my handle is @be.truebalance. Or you can visit my website, which is truebalancewithbeth.com and I have all the links there too, you know, YouTube or Facebook.

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