How can you use your email list as a health coach? Today, Kate Doster is sharing email marketing tips for health coaches. We’ll be talking about what to email your list every week, and how to use your list to sell.
Jess: Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the digital lounge. I am excited because we have a special guests today, and we’re going to be talking about email marketing which I know is everyone’s favorite topic [crosstalk 00:00:21] but hopefully-
Kate: As it should be.
Jess: As it should be. So, hopefully after today’s episode, you will feel more confident about email, whether you need to finally start creating your list or maybe you were like, okay, now I feel like I can email them. So, welcome Kate. Thank you so much for being here. I’d love for you to tell us about yourself and your business.
Kate: Sure. So, I am unbelievably excited to be here. Totally was having a fangirl moment with Jess when she said yes to me coming out here. I’m like, “Oh my goodness! This is so exciting!” She’s always so short and succinct, and I am a bit of a rambler, so hopefully Jess will like, “Kate, we got to stay on track here.”
So, I’m Kate Doster of KateDoster.com, and I’m the host of the Inbox Besties podcast where we give you dangerously actionable tips to turn subscribers into subscribers with benefits. The kind that throw fistfuls of cash at you for courses, and coaching, and stuff. Nothing shady. We don’t do anything shady here. And I truly believe that, especially in the online space, especially as health coach providers or people in the nutritional industry, we really just want to help a lot. And there’s a lot of pressure when you come on to the online marketing space, going like, “You’ve got to have an email list! You’ve got to have an email list, bro! If your email list is [inaudible 00:01:35] 10,000, you’re a giant loser face!” And that’s not it at all.
All your email list is is people who are raising their hand and they’re like, “I really want to know about counting macros, or I really would like some help with my mental health,” and that’s the way that we need to start thinking of this. I always tell this to my students that you need to save yourself every day. Being on my list is a privilege. And I think that when you think about it both ways, one, that means that you’re actually email them because your treating it like a privilege. More importantly, when people have subscribed, you’re like, “See ya, dude!” Or someone sends you hate mail, you don’t reply and you block their IP address like, ha ha, you can’t come back. I don’t want that in my life. So really, that is my mission to help people, especially with email marketing, to actually just feel comfortable communicating what they have to say.
So, as a former copywriter, so that means I got paid buku dollars to make people slap buttons on the internet. Basically, it’s like the Mad Men era. So, about pages and homepages, hated writing all of those things, they were the worst, but when I got to write funnels, and landing pages, and we’ll probably talk about those things a little bit later on, I just loved it because it felt like I was writing to a friend, and just telling them about something super exciting that they needed to know that could help them, too. So, we’ll talk all about that I’m sure.
Jess: I love it. I love it. Yes. And funnels and email, it’s super important, and so many people are are scared of it or they hate, or you’re like, “It feels icky.” And I’m like, “It’s your email list. You don’t have to make it feel icky.”
Jess: Do it your own way. So, I would love to start with something that I know I’ve had a lot of people ask me is what do I send my list? Let’s start at the bare basics of I don’t even know what to … Okay, I’m supposed to have this list, but what are the different ways people can … What can they send their subscribers?
Kate: They can send so many things. So, I feel like some people get caught in this weird assumption. I don’t know where they got it from, Jess, but probably you have, too, where they feel like if I don’t write a blog post, or I don’t do a video, or I don’t do a podcast that week, I’ve got nothing to share with my list, and that’s totally untrue. Again, you need to start thinking of your email list as people who are just as excited about your topic as it is. So, if you are a coach and you primarily focus on people going vegan, you have to be so obsessed with your people that it’s like I could talk about this all day, every day. Well, just talk some of that to the list.
So, the first thing that I tell people, especially when they’re first starting out, is really to look almost at a sending schedule. So, I’m not necessarily one for rules, I’m a bit of a rule breaker, but I do have my students who sort of get in the habit of emailing about once a week, and you’re going to usually try for the same date and time because like Sundays used to be Game of Throne night, you want Tuesdays to be Tammy’s Health Tip because you’re like, “Oh!” They’ll start getting used to it. If Tammy does not show up on Tuesday, they will email you back and be like, “Where are you? Are you okay?” So, that’s the first thing that we do.
And when you actually look at it and you’re like, “Oh. Well, there’s only four Tuesdays this month,” now you only have to write four emails. So, all of a sudden that pressure of, “Oh my goodness. I have to email, I have to email, I have to email.” It’s like, “Oh, I just have to talk about veganism in four emails? I can do that.” So, you can start sending things like maybe tools, you can send quick tips, but a lot of where you’ll actually get people that are ready to buy or even thinking about hiring you for your services is when you start breaking down some assumptions.
Kate: So, we call this in my sphere the Sir Mix-a-lot principle, and that is based off of the song Baby Got Back. And the man liked big butts, and the thing is is that your wallet likes big butts. So, in the health and wellness, it’s like I’d love to eat healthy, but it’s expensive. I love to healthy, but my parents don’t eat that. I love to eat that, but I eat out a lot. I love to eat that out, but my kids, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but.
So, if you literally sat down, even for five minutes, hopefully not while you’re driving, but after listening to this podcast, and just write out a whole list of buts, you wouldn’t probably have well more than a year’s worth of email idea content just to help them get over the pressure. Because as we know from helping people, it’s not necessarily their faith in us. Yeah, there’s a little bit like, “I’ve seen Jess’s website. It’s snazzy. I’m going to hire her to do my web stuff because it’s not gross.” But it’s can I actually get the results as a person? Not can you as a coach get them for me. So, that’s really what email marketing allows you to do is kind of give them confidence.
I don’t want to swear in this I know I have to put the E in it, but my other philosophy is basically you want your person to feel like a bad … butt I guess if you will? Be like a bad boss so that we don’t have to put an E in there. The GIF that I always show my students is there’s that one of Beyonce where she’s just flipping her hair, and you just know that she’s the ish. That’s how you want your people to feel. So, that is competent in their abilities, that is not feeling like they’re alone. Because sometimes it’s just you sharing your struggle. It’s like look, I know that I am a health teacher, or excuse me, a health coach, but Thanksgiving I splurged like fully and utterly, and I felt awful because here I am supposed to lead you. But then I realized, you know what? We’re not perfect, and it’s about the fact that it’s the day after and I’m not having pie for breakfast. So, people love not feeling alone, and they love feeling motivated.
Jess: Yes, yes, yes. There’s so many different ways, like you said, quick tips, and stories, and different … and it’s just connecting with people. I talk a lot about creating content, and sometimes I have told people like, “You can just, if you don’t want to commit to blogging or creating video, just email your list.”
Kate: Yeah, and they’re super short usually. You can make them timely so it even makes it easier for you.
Jess: Yeah. So, we always hear like, “You need a list because that’s how you’re going to grow your business,” and blah, blah, blah. So, let’s dive into how do we sell to our list? Because obviously if we’re wanting to grow our business, that usually means money. So, how do we use our list without feeling icky and slimy?
Kate: Okay. So first of all, I think this goes back to a little bit of just sales mindset in general is that we’ve all been there where we have listened to podcast episodes, or blog posts, or downloaded free gifs ourself called lead magnets or freebies, and then we did nothing with it. Or you read it, but then we never implemented it. So, you kind of needed to realize that the people that will actually give you money are the ones that are most likely to actually get results. So, it’s kind of like you’re doing them a disservice by not allowing them to pay you. That’s really what it breaks down to. So, we need to start thinking of it this way, and get yourself out of other people’s pockets. That’s not our job. So, once we clear up sort of our money issues, you’re like, “Oh, I would do this for everyone and I would do it for free.” People wouldn’t actually follow what you say for free. They just wouldn’t. So, humans are weird. It’s the way that we’re wired.
So, when you’re getting ready to sell, the first thing to realize is every email is a sales email. So, you are selling the fact that you get them, that you understand them, that you are worth following, that you’re interesting. And interesting doesn’t mean that you have to be funny or hilarious, it could just mean that you found really cool facts, like, “Yeah. So, I was searching Google the other day, and did you know that people consume a gajillion pounds of sugar, but only five pounds of broccoli a year?” Again, I’m pulling this out of nowhere. That’s an interesting factoid that people are going to be like, “Huh-ho, Sally health coach. I get where she is going with this.” Or maybe Sally is really into running, or she’s really into her cats. You’re sort of bringing this personality.
So, that way when you do have something to sell, say you are looking to fill up your one-on-one program or a group program, it’s sort of like, okay … I like to tell my students, “It’s not like we’re going at this sideways, but we’re not just being like, ‘Hey guys, I have this thing and it’s super cool and you need to buy it!!!'” I call it exclamation point slapping. We’re not about that life. What we’re about is actually telling them, it’s like, “Okay. So, you said that you’ve been struggling with keeping the weight off, and usually what that is is you have a problem with your metabolism throughout the day.” Again, I’m pulling this out of my butt people, so don’t actually think she knows what she’s talking about. “So, what really helps with that is actually eating three square meals a day. However, that can be a little bit challenging, which is why I’ve created this group coaching program that happens to tell you what to eat when, and I send you little eating reminders.”
Kate: So, we’re talking about the thing that they need to accomplish, and that they could technically do it on their own, but we’ve got a way to make it faster, and easier, and better. When we’re focused and you are excited on their results, and their potential, and not the fact that, yeah, sure you might’ve spent 20 years honing your craft, or even the last year creating this course. No one cares. They care about what you can do for them. When it’s like, “Guys, I’ve been honing this for the last 20 years so I know it’s going to work, and here are some case studies,” then people are going to be like, yep, just take it. Take all my money. She’s right. I do need to do this, and you’ve got something to help me do it. Let’s go.
Jess: Exactly, and I love, love, love that you pointed out that people don’t care how long it took you to create this program or … I see that all the time and I’m like, “That’s not going to work.” I’m not like, “Oh man. Kate spent a month, a year creating this. I better give her my money.” I have no obligation to pay you based on the amount of time it took you.
Kate: That slays me. That’s like a secondary or a third-dary fact if you will. Or almost tertiary I guess is the proper word. I swear I don’t get paid money to write things for people. Because yeah, you do want to know people have incredibility, but it’s that emotion that we buy with first. So, we’re already like, “Yeah, I want to do this. Oh, and she’s got 20 years of experience?” It’s that and she’s got 20 years experience, or and she lost a hundred pounds herself. That’s what we’re looking for. We’re not leading with us. We’re leading with them.
Jess: Yes, yes, yes. I tell this to people about their website all the time. I’m like, “I don’t care about all about you. Tell me about how my life is going to be better after working with you.” So, thank you for pointing that out.
Kate: Totally. And of course there’s always that sort of standard thing if you do have case studies, which I’m probably sure you do, even if it’s just helping out a friend because say you’re newer into the online space with your nutritional based business or whatever, then yeah, you’re going to want to have that. But it is not thinking that … I guess the biggest problem is people think they send one email saying, “Here, you need to work on your micros. Here’s why it’s important. Oh look, I have this course,” and if nobody buys off that first email, they stop sending. Well one, it could’ve been a very heavy email day, and they never got to it, and now all of a sudden it’s three days later, it’s at the bottom. It’s never happening. It’s dead. We’ve all done that as a person where we’ve just did miss it.
Kate: There are other people that do need a little bit of information and a little bit of actual coaching because, again, they could be scared, or they think like, oh, I could do it for myself, or oh yeah, she says it’s going to help with this, but it might not. So, that’s why you send a couple of emails because you want to make sure that people have all of the information to make the best decision. When you’re coming at it from that I want my person to have all of the best information, you can’t shove that in one email because nobody would read it. Their brain would explode. So, that’s what you’ve got things like a case study, you’ve got things like a frequently asked questions, you’ve got things like a free preview, or an office hours where someone can call in and ask you stuff. This is why we do this whole span because yeah, some people are just going to be like, “Take my money,” but other people need to see things, they need to feel things, and they need to believe that they can actually get those results.
Jess: Yeah. So, speaking of more than just one email, what tips do you have for creating funnels for our programs, and services, and products?
Kate: Okay. The first one, and this should come as no shocker since we already talked about good old Sir Mix-A-Lot is you need to make sure that the free gift, the opt in, the freebie … I’ve heard people call it an ethical bribe. [crosstalk 00:14:05] Whatever you’re giving people … Right? Spoiler alert, it was an old white guy. Anywho, so was there a question? So, you need to make sure that that is aligned with a question that someone would ultimately have about buying your course, or about the thing that you actually cover. Not necessarily hiring you.
Kate: So, where people tend to drop the ball is it can be like “Five steps to your best life ever,” but then you’re trying to sell me a course on macros? That makes no sense. You know what I mean? So, you need to make sure that that free gift, it sort of answers one of those ‘yeah, buts’ that somebody would have. One of my favorite examples, and Google is great for this. You can search for it … Would be say you are ultimately … say you’re a health coach and you do primarily plant-based. You could have a freebie that’s like, “How to go vegan when you love cheese,” or, “Cheese lover’s guide to going vegan,” and people are going to be like, “Ahh!” They’re going to sign up for that. So, we need to make sure, and I would much rather you have less people and more of the right people. I’m all about attracting people that I know I can help and get results for, and ultimately attracting buyers. If you want a huge list, give away an iPad. It’s going to be [inaudible 00:15:16] and you’re not going to get any money, but if you want people who you knew are interested in going vegan or having a plant based diet, then do this. This makes sense.
Kate: So, [inaudible 00:15:27] like to sort of start off with a funnel. So, in my signature course Love Your List, we have the little black dress sales funnel. So, you can dress it up, and dress it down, and all that sort of things, but it ends up being … I think it’s about 11-ish emails, and don’t freak out. Because one email is just like afterwards where you’re just like, “Hey, how’s everything going with their fitness?” So, they’re not like really long. But again, we start off with whatever your free gift is. I always like to do sort of my second email is usually a quick tip based off of that email. So that way, again, you still remind them about the freebie that I know we all spent a lot of time on, and it’s like, oh, I’m getting this quick win, I’m getting these result.
Kate: Then from there, we can sort of really start to think, again, psychologically what are some more ‘yeah, buts’ that people would have. What are some misconceptions? So, I don’t ever like to say like, “Oh, five myths about losing weight.” No one’s going to read that email. Do you want to read that email? No. You don’t. So, you want to think about what would one of those myths be tied to? It’s about like being big boned, or having a slow metabolism, or one of my personal favorite ways to sort of get out the myths or mistake emails is I call it the rant email.
Kate: What just pisses you off to no end? Everyone thinks that once you hit 50, you’re just fat, and you’ve got to pack it in, and your hormones are a waste, and just go get a muumuu and die on the couch. [inaudible 00:16:49] about that life. Or maybe you are all about fasting and you think that eating five times a day is dumb. Have that email at the beginning so people can know yes she’s for me, or no she isn’t. And then from there, it’s just a little bit, again, about thinking about, okay, you know that you want to do fasting, but there’s this problem. Hey look, now I’ve got something to solve it for you. Here’s someone that I’ve helped do it. Here’s maybe some questions. You want to see what it’s like? Let’s hop on a call. And just so on and so forth.
Jess: Yes. I love it. I cannot stop thinking about the Sir Mix-A-Lot analogy. This is literally the greatest thing. You said this like 10 minutes ago, and I can’t stop thinking about it.
Kate: [inaudible 00:17:29] email marketing’s so boring. I’m like, “No!” There’s another blogger and I love her to death, and she’s so, so wicked smart, and I’m like, “God, you make this seem like a chore. No wonder [inaudible 00:17:40] no one wants to do it.” It is fun people. It is fun.
Jess: Yeah, and it’s really it’s not scary. I have gotten, I don’t know, maybe one … I can think of one specifically, but maybe two nasty replies to my emails in the last five years. So, that was it.
Kate: I’ve never gotten a mean reply to a sales email. I’ve gotten thank you a bunch of times because, again, I approach it as their point of view. Not like, “Woohoo guys, let’s party and my stuff is ready.” Always make it about them.
Kate: The one I got, this was so funny … So again, and this is how you can infuse your personality. I know Jess and I said how we don’t matter, but you do because, spoiler alert, I know I’m not the only person that you’ve probably listened to email marketing about, but I’m your favorite now obviously because I talk about Sir Mix-A-Lot, right? So, it’s those little things that sort of stand you apart, your methodology, the way you phrase things.
Kate: So, I had sent an email, you know how everyone in our space always says that make money while you asleep? Well, mine is make money while you poop emoji because I do. I make money when I’m pooping, right? No one replied back to that. No one was upset. It became infamous I noticed, the poop email. The only replies were positive, and they’re like, “Oh my goodness. This was amazing.” The next email, I think I called people homeslices, which I call my people homeslice all the time, and that was the only one that got the, “Well, I think your information is great, but I can’t believe you said homeslice. I’m unsubscribing.”
Kate: [crosstalk 00:19:04] I literally laughed, again, and I wished her well. I think I might’ve blocked her because I usually do afterwards. I’m like I’m not going to deal with that. But it was the most polite rejection letter ever. But I’m like I literally … I went into my email [inaudible 00:19:17] I’m like, “I saw you open this poop email. How did that not set you off, but the word homeslice did?” [inaudible 00:19:23]. People are weird, guys. People are weird. [inaudible 00:19:27] for episode.
Jess: I don’t know if this … Maybe you will know if this is a trend or not. I have noticed, by and large, if I have a sales email, I would say 95% of the time I get zero unsubscribes. If I send an email that is just here’s a helpful tip, some encouragement, five unsubscribers, and I’m like I don’t understand it. And every time it happens I’m like so I should just like pitch more because apparently that will keep you around, but this helpful, encouraging email you don’t like and you want to leave, and I don’t understand. Is that normal? Do people usually stick around for sales emails?
Kate: I feel like they might on my list because sometimes you get people, not that I’ve ever seen anyone copycat me because you can’t because if anyone talks about Sir Mix-A-Lot principal, you’re going to know where it came from. So, I don’t know if people stick on my list because they want to try to reverse engineer some of the things that I do, because I don’t give away all my secrets except to my students. Even then, they don’t get all of them. Spoiler alert, listies, you don’t. But maybe they want to see how it goes?
Kate: But you also have to remember, especially with unsubscribes and I’m really glad that you brought that up, is we’ve all Marie Kondo’d our inbox. It can be nothing against Jess, but if I’m just like, “Oh my goodness, I’m getting so many emails.” Every time an email comes, I’m going to hit on subscribe, or I’m going to go through my old ones. Then if I want to resubscribe, I will. So, that’s the other thing that you need to think about unsubscribes is that maybe they just are Marie Kondo-ing it. As you’re getting unsubscribes, that means you’re actually emailing your people, and so that’s kind of a good thing.
Jess: Yeah. It is.
Kate: Just saying. I know it’s hard when you have a hundred people, and 10 unsubscribe, and you’re like, “Oh, now I have 90!” It’s okay. Now, if 90 of them unsubscribed, perhaps you need to look at stuff. But [crosstalk 00:21:28] it’s okay if you’ve got 10. Don’t feel bad about yourself. Just be like, you know what? That means that I emailed. It’s like look at Instagram. How many people follow and unfollow us on the daily? I just got an app that tracked that, and it was a hundred people followed and unfollowed in a day. But meanwhile, if you had that fluctuation on your email list, people would be like [00:21:47]. It’s probably because no one’s thinking, oh my goodness, if I subscribe to someone’s list, they’ll subscribe back.
Jess: Right. Yeah. I think the part about unsubscribes that I remind myself, well first of all, unsubscribes don’t bother me anymore. I’m like, whatever. Bye. But the part that I always used to remind myself is they weren’t going to buy from me anyway. If they unsubscribed, they probably weren’t as invested. Maybe they decided maybe I’m not feeling her vibe anymore or whatever, or I am not at this point yet. I’m not ready to learn this high level of stuff, or whatever. Maybe you’re speaking … Like they’re like, “No, I already know all this. I need to go find somebody else.” It’s nothing personal.
Jess: Like you said. I mean, you’ve had that one person who didn’t like that you called them homeslice. I had someone [crosstalk 00:22:45] unsubscribe last year because I mentioned Chick-fil-A in an email, which if you follow me on Instagram I mentioned it on a weekly basis, and she was very offended, and was like, “If you’re talking to health coaches, you can’t mention Chick-fil-A because it’s not healthy.” And I was like, “I’m pretty sure like 90% of the health people I follow talk and coach about moderation.”
Kate: I was like because they’re business practices? Like that just so how I’m wired. I’m like-
Jess: I didn’t say anything about like go to Chick-fil-A or anything. I don’t even-
Kate: It was an analogy, right?
Jess: Yeah, it was an analogy and I was like, “Okay. Somebody’s panties are in a wod.”
Kate: And that’s the other thing. And you can even if you want to take it really, especially at the beginning, as almost a Pollyanna sort of rose-colored glasses, just think that those five people have solved their health problem. How much more better are their lives going to be? So, it can be a little hit to your ego because you’re like, oh man, I didn’t help them do it. But it’s like, oh, those people, they must’ve had their act together, and I’m so excited that five more people have their act together. Then, mysteriously 15 more people are going to come on your [inaudible 00:24:02] and they’re going to be like, “Oh my goodness, you’re amazing! Love you so much! [inaudible 00:24:08] based diet. Screw you low-fat diet,” or something. You know what I mean?
Kate: So, even with those rant emails because I feel like … before I used to have students tell their origin stories, and I’ll be honest, no one would do it because everyone hates talking about themselves. But the second I told them [inaudible 00:24:20] rant emails, they got in there and they’re like, “What if people on subscribe?” I’m like, “That’s the point. We’re sending it as a third email, so look it. Now your open rates are going to go up because you’re going to have less people that don’t want to hear about it. Your click throughs are going to go through. People are going to bond to you like glue, and it’s a good thing. This is how you show your personality and make it about them but still about you.”
Jess: Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Any last tips? One thing we can do to really rock our email list?
Kate: Don’t be afraid to email. That’s probably number one. Realize that if they signed up from your list, they do want to hear about you, and they want to hear about the topic. And that you really cannot screw this up. Every time you email, it’s going to be excellent. Okay? It just is, and I don’t want you being like, “Oh my goodness. It takes me an hour and a half to write this email.” It probably shouldn’t take you an hour and a half. It’s probably more psychological than writing. As I always tell my students, we sculpt in the awesome. So, you’ve got to write a really crappy first draft, and then you can go in and chop it up. But if you don’t get past sentence two, it’s not going to happen. And I’m going to challenge you guys all today to literally just send an email, and it is ‘The biggest mistake I see people make when it comes to their eating is …’ and that’s it. Just fill in the blank. That’s your email for today.
Jess: I love it. I expect some DMS on Instagram, screenshots, something of like I sent this email. I listened to Kate and I sent this email.
Jess: This was amazing. I now have Sir Mix-A-Lot stuck in my [inaudible 00:26:00].
Kate: Right? And all of your happy memories you will now tie to me. Now, we didn’t talk about deep psychological because your girl’s background is in communication, and I have a minor in sales psychology. Well, just psychology in general, but now all your Sir Mix-A-Lot happy feelings are going to be tied to Kate Doster and Inbox Besties feelings as well.
Jess: I love it. That’s a great thing to be tied to.
Kate: Right? That’s what I’m saying. So, this is how you add you and your brand, and you can stand out, but still help people and still make it about them.
Jess: Yeah. So, what are you working on? What’s coming up, and how can we connect with you online?
Kate: All right. So first and foremost, wherever you’re to this podcast, if you just search for Inbox Besties, I’m sure we’ll have a link to it in the show notes. That’s probably the best place. That is my weekly podcast where we talk about everything from email marketing. Jess is going to be on their guys by the way. We talk about social media, though that’s not my bag. I bring in experts like Jess. We talk about running a business. And this year in particular, we have really started to focus on sort of the rainy days of entrepreneurship because not everything is sunshine and rainbows. So, we’re starting to bring a little bit more mindset in that as well, but it’s still super practical.
Kate: Thank you guys. I have a free gift. You can head on over to KateDoster.com/2years. So that is, I literally … You won’t have to worry about what to email your list until 2021, people. I literally wrote out what you can send your list every single week of the year. So if it is August, I have first week of August send this. Second week, send that. So, it’ll give you a prompt so that way you can start to think about it. And if you’re like, “Kate, your idea stinks.” Chances are it’ll get the ball rolling [inaudible 00:27:45].
Kate: Depending on when this goes live, because I’m one of those a little bit of fly by the seat of your pants ladies, we may or may not be having an open launch to a Love Your List. That is my signature course where we talk about everything from creating freebies to easy yes offers. So, that is offers that you can have rather on your thank you page. It can be offers that you just have. Basically, it’s to get people addicted to giving you cash because you just wow them. We talked about how to write sales emails. We talked about funnels, we talked about welcome theories, we talked about the whole gambit basically. I love that course, which you can head on over to LoveYourList.co. You only have to be able to get on the wait list, and I’ll tell you about a free master class that we have running on, or you could see the sales page, how exciting, and then you’ll be able to dive right in.
Jess: I love it. So exciting. I’ll put all the links to that in the show notes, but thank you so much for being here, Kate. This was amazing.